Beyond Distracted Episode 1: Dr Oli Meredith
- ab2042
- Jan 20
- 26 min read
You can listen to this episode here:
Transcript
Oli Meredith (00:03):
I thought for a long time that lots of my difficulties was around chronic fatigue syndromes. And I think I heard Hannah Gadsby talking on the radio when I was around 40 and she described me and she talked about she goes diagnosed with autism and she was diagnosed with ADHD. But I remember just being on a coach and I just cried and cried because it always just really confused me. But then I realized when I realized what ADHD was, I could see the patterns through my whole life that this was the underlying [00:00:30] thing. And having said that, ADHD may be an underlying thing that really helps me understand a lot.
Anthony Brown (00:44):
Welcome to Beyond Distracted, where we talk with successful people with ADHD, explore the highs and lows of their journey, and learn the creative and insightful ways they live their lives in a neurodiverse-friendly way. My name is Anthony Brown.
Meagan Cooke (00:57):
And my name is Meagan Cooke, and we're psychologists with [00:01:00] ADHD. We hope our episodes are entertaining and change the conversation around ADHD, but it's no substitute for the real thing. So for personal support, we recommend getting help from a qualified mental health professional.
Anthony Brown (01:18):
And today we're joined by Dr. Oli Meredith, and always say I feel like I always kind of guess at this because when I read things, I tend to just say [00:01:30] it in my head and then always avoid the proper pronunciation of things because I'm too nervous to get it wrong, but it's AudiADHD, I believe.
Oli Meredith (01:42):
Hey, I think it's AuDHD, yeah.
Anthony Brown (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, cool. I'm glad I asked about that rather than dancing around it professionally for 20 years because that's just silly. Who has the time for that? So an AuDHD academic public health researcher, mindfulness practitioner, Reiki instructor, [00:02:00] living on beautiful Ngunnawal land in Canberra. Oli work is grounded in lived experience and a deep commitment to addressing structural inequalities and health. Her research explores the health and wellbeing of women, neurodiverse people, First Nations people, and LBGTQIA communities, always with a focus on intersectionality, inclusion, and community-led balance. They currently lead the project Hiding or Thriving, a study supported by ADHD Australia that explores the lived experience of coping strategies [00:02:30] of women and gender diverse peoples with ADHD. Oli has also contributed internationally to improving ADHD diagnosis for girls and women and continues to champion research that is intellectually rigorous, socially just, and rooted in a lived experience. Hi, Dr. Oli Meredith. Thanks for joining us.
Oli Meredith (02:47):
Hey, Anthony. Thanks for having me. And yeah, sorry for the wordy bio. I need to simplify that somewhere down the track.
Anthony Brown (02:56):
No, [inaudible 00:03:00].
Meagan Cooke (02:56):
No, not at all.
Anthony Brown (03:00):
[00:03:00] You've done a lot of things, a lot of cool things. A bio's wordy sometimes for a reason, right? But yeah, thanks for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about how you came to be diagnosed and what that journey was like for you?
Oli Meredith (03:12):
Oh gosh, yeah. So I'm 47 now, so I guess it was probably ... Where do you start with the gene? You just got to pick a spot, haven't you? I thought for a long time that lots of my difficulties was around chronic fatigue syndrome. So I was out of business for about five or six years. [00:03:30] I mean, I did manage to ... I had to go to a ... I actually worked in a call center for a number of years just to try and make sure I could go to a work for dignity, for practical reasons to have money, and also for waking up at a certain time was really important. I found out that routine. So all those things combined, I just really needed to keep a job. So I just about managed that, but I would just go for a few hours a day. I'd need to sleep after a few hours on a sofa they had in this place I went to. So [00:04:00] it was a really difficult time of my life.
(04:02):
And I'm describing those things because a lot of people are like, "Oh, what does chronic fatigue syndrome mean?" But it really has huge implications on people's lives. And most people I knew with chronic fatigue syndrome didn't work at all, couldn't work at all. So were in a worse situation than me. And I was living in Cambodia and I'd got various tropical diseases, dengue and things like that, and resulted in this. So I thought that I wanted to do a PhD just to learn more about why these things weren't [00:04:30] being investigated, especially for women, and why they won't be taken more seriously. I saw people's lives being completely ... not destroyed, but really, really affected. So that's why I ended up, when I got better, doing a PhD in public health, not an area of mine at all.
(04:47):
So I thought I wanted to study chronic fatigue syndrome and get into that. And I think I heard Hannah Gadsby talking on the radio when I was around 40 and she described me and she talked about she was [00:05:00] diagnosed with autism and she was diagnosed with ADHD. And I can't exactly remember how she described it, all the things that were there now, but I remember just being on a coach and I just cried and cried, because it always just really confused me how ... Like people would say with chronic fatigue syndrome, they advised you not, you really have to do things gradually. So you can build up over a slow amount of time your exercise.
(05:21):
But what I would do is not be able to see anyone, not have any energy, but then have a little pocket of energy and then just go to [00:05:30] town, like suddenly see everyone and think you were cured and just this boom and bust that would kind of frustrate people around you as well because they would see it and say, and my partner would say, "What are you doing? You're not going to be able to do anything now for two weeks, but you'd do it anyway." But then I realized, when I realized what ADHD was, I could see the patterns through my whole life that this was the underlying thing. And having said that, ADHD may be an underlying thing that really helps me understand a lot. I think also there's things like [00:06:00] CPTSD that may also underlie that in the first place. So it's all very complex.
(06:04):
When I say, where do you enter, which is the entry point? And then I just knew. So I wasn't sure whether to bother getting diagnosed. It was very clear to me. There's just no question. You go back over your life, don't you, and you see everything differently and you go. "Oh, that's what that meant. That's what that was." I was just going to say, I eventually did get diagnosed and it was really interesting to me that that actually was so validating. I didn't think I needed it so much, but [00:06:30] suddenly I was able to actually tell people that and do things differently and say that was okay to do things differently.
Meagan Cooke (06:37):
That sounds like the diagnosis was still really powerful.
Oli Meredith (06:40):
Oh yeah. Yep, it was. And actually the person just told me very quickly, "You got it." I didn't get any advice or therapy around that. The way it was conducted wasn't especially helpful, but luckily I'd done, as lots of us do, all the research and connected with people around that and felt like I was allowed to say [00:07:00] out loud once you'd actually got the diagnosis.
Meagan Cooke (07:02):
Yeah, yeah. Somehow it feels like permission. I think that's such a common experience, what you're saying. A lot of people who come to assessment, they feel that they already know that they have it and yet there's a sense of kind of shock when a diagnosis is given, "Oh, I really have it. I really have it." And then that idea of being able to share it.
Oli Meredith (07:22):
It's funny you sort of sit with that little fraudulent part on your shoulder and it's funny how that then is validated by the medical professions, [00:07:30] even though you know that that little fraudulent part then pops off going, "Oh no, yeah, it's validated."
Meagan Cooke (07:35):
Yeah. Well, I think that little part, for lots of people, it's that narrative of, "Oh, but I might not have it because I probably just need to try harder."
Oli Meredith (07:44):
Totally. Which you've carried around all your life thinking that's what it was. And maybe it's an excuse and maybe I'm lazy and all those sorts of things.
Meagan Cooke (07:52):
Yeah, they're hard to overcome. But yeah, and another such a common experience, I think it's great for listeners, that idea of you do. It's like you [00:08:00] rerun your whole life with that new perspective, with that diagnosis, and all of a sudden things make sense in a completely different way.
Oli Meredith (08:08):
Yeah, they do.
Anthony Brown (08:10):
Yeah, it's an entire new language to explain your past and your present and incredibly validating, which is great.
Meagan Cooke (08:18):
Do you mind me asking, Oli, sorry, Anthony, to interrupt. In terms of the autism diagnosis, did that occur at the same time or that was something earlier in life for you?
Oli Meredith (08:27):
No, so autism, actually ... [00:08:30] probably I'm in the situation I was with the ADHD, that that's more of a surprise. My psychologist said, "Have a look at these questionnaires," So sent me three questionnaires which were all geared towards gender-wise, so geared towards women. So I was really shocked to see them, but I was also shocked to see the questions and I was sort of off the charts with that. And that still surprises me. And I think that's a really complex world because I've got a child who's got level two autism and who manifests very, very [00:09:00] differently to me and perhaps more stereotypically. They're assigned male at birth. But what it has helped me with is understanding, and that's after ADHD that I considered autism, but it's helped me understand some of things that seem like real contradictions in me.
(09:15):
And a lot of people don't know those contradictions, so I kind of picked the one that's most obvious and stick with that as my personality and sort of hide the other parts. So I try ... I'm extrovert. People often think I'm extrovert, but I've always been very introverted as well. And [00:09:30] I've got a real ... and I need both in different ways and there's real conditions around both. So I can seem very relaxed and just a kind of chill person, but actually I've got an undercurrent of OCD and ... not quite, I shouldn't say OCD lightly, it's not OCD, but a need to control things and it takes up so much energy, the interplay and the confusion between those things too.
Meagan Cooke (09:56):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of people that would resonate with that. I think with the [00:10:00] new recognition of the autism and ADHD, it is, again, it's something that's helping people make sense, of why do I have this one part of me that wants or needs this and this other part of me that seemingly wants or needs the complete opposite or something very different. It's so interesting to hear how you're responding and managing that in life, that idea of, "Oh, I just still mask when..." That sort of idea of how do you ... It's such a difficult conflict within yourself that the idea of what I don't know how to unmask or [00:10:30] show that to everyone else because I'm still working out internally what it is that I need. And in this situation, it's different to that situation.
Oli Meredith (10:37):
Yeah, because none of us are in a silo, are we, and we're getting feedback from people around us telling us who we are as well and responding well to some bits and not to others. And I've always had to try and ... I mean, sometimes it's obvious because I get really shy, but that shocks people when that comes out or I might lose my words. And yeah, it's really hard to know what to do with that. You don't want to disappoint people around [00:11:00] you. But yeah, again, understanding that just gives you a bit of space to start to unpack that a little bit, a little bit of softness. But you still got those pressures on you. It isn't a panacea. It doesn't suddenly lift it all.
Anthony Brown (11:14):
Totally, yeah. So I was watching a presentation you were doing for ADHD Australia, and I really liked the way that you started off with it, talking about how as an academic and a researcher, you think that these presentations [00:11:30] would come quite naturally for you, but that they're actually quite difficult, which I can really identify with. I was like, "Yes, that's a very true thing for me as quite sometimes." And I guess working as an academic and a researcher, I guess there's a very specific idea of how that kind of presents sometimes, and I really liked a reflection that there's many different ways to be in those spaces. And I was wondering, and you could talk about how your neurodiversity fits into [00:12:00] that and what it's like to be neurodiverse in an academic setting.
Oli Meredith (12:04):
Yeah, it's such a ... And I'm lucky. I'm very lucky, I should say. I'm at Charleston University and very supportive and I've got very supportive people around me. So I'm able to ... And I know that some workplaces is a bit hit and miss, maybe a bit of luck where you're able to feel like you can talk about neurodiversity, neurodivergence without it being a deficit or too much of a deficit anyway. So it's quite lucky, a nice space. But I found that it's just been so freeing having the language, but [00:12:30] it's also been so motivating because you can see just in those micro moments ... Inspirational sounds like too strong a word, but I'm going to use it anyway. You just can inspire other people with that honesty. So that's what kind of motivates me.
(12:43):
I know that that ... So for my students I'm talking about particularly. So I will say to students, I'm AuDHD or ADHD and autistic, and I'll tell them about other components of my life as well, say I'm queer, and ... just permission for everyone to be themselves and show up as themselves. It's not [00:13:00] so that just the neurodivergent people in the room can show up themselves. I give a few facets and I encourage students to do that. Because I think you guys probably will have experienced this too, that you're almost forced to lie about who you are through society. So you've got to say, "Sorry, my essay's going to be late," the dog ain't my homework type thing. We're brought up from a really young age to do that.
(13:21):
So I really want to encourage students to be able to say ... So I say to students, "Listen, sometimes I'm not brilliant with emails. So if I haven't replied to you in [00:13:30] two or three days, just send me another one. I'm not trying to put the onus on you, but just to let you know, you're not being impolite if that's what you do. I'm not trying to make them do all the work either." So it's just have that honesty. So then in return, they're like, "Well, she's been honest with us, surely I'm allowed to say, 'I've just got going on. I've just got all this happening with the kids and can you give me an extension,'" type thing. So just that honesty I've found makes a nicer environment for everyone.
Anthony Brown (14:00):
[00:14:00] A new ADHD diagnosis can be a big adjustment. It can be emotional, raise many questions, and leave you wondering what to do next. Beyond Distracted is our post-diagnosis support service that educates people about what ADHD is, how it works, practical strategies, and next steps for treatment, helping you navigate this stage with clarity. If you're looking for support for yourself, for your family, visit beyond-distracted.com to get started.
Meagan Cooke (14:28):
A couple of things are coming to my [00:14:30] mind. Sorry, I can't help myself. Another guest shared with us that they put an email disclaimer at the bottom of their signature, and I've since put it in place and it has been the most liberating thing. It says, "I have ADHD. If I don't reply to you or it's urgent or so on and so forth, please send me another email." So even when I forget to let people know that I'm not good at emails, it's just there in black and white. And it's so nice because what you're saying, they have permission to follow up without having a whole [00:15:00] thing about whether or not they're annoying you or nagging or having some kind of impact on the relationship, particularly if it's supervisory. And then you're also saying, "This is a really helpful accommodation for me to pop that to the top of my inbox because I will forget about it." And that's okay. That's how my mind works. It doesn't mean it's unimportant, but it might mean that it's not urgent and so it drops off the list. I mean, that's incredible.
(15:25):
And the second thing that came to my mind, you've described to me before, Oli, that idea of [00:15:30] even in a job or an academic application, the idea that you need to have exceptional organizational skills and how those kind of ... as a requirement, something that you have to address. And the idea that from a systems point of view, we're still lying. We're applying for jobs and talking about exceptional organizational skills, which is completely untrue. I've got enough. I've got enough organizational skills. That's not where the strength lies.
Oli Meredith (15:56):
So I put an advert out for honors students. I put in [00:16:00] the line, there's a question about organizational skills dot dot, and it normally has something like that. It says, it always says "exceptional organization skills." And who are you missing by doing that? And you're either asking someone to lie or not do an honors or PhD or degree or whatever it is or take the job or whatever it is. So I've got three beautiful ADHD honor students and all of them have said that they noticed that, but one of them was really teary about that and saying, "I [00:16:30] never thought that I could do honors. And I just applied for this because I saw that line that said ..." I think I said something like reasonable organizational skills or prepared to work on them and communicate needs or something like that.
(16:42):
Now that's fair, right? That's fair. It's taking responsibility. It's not to say, "Oh yeah, you deal with it for me, supervisor." It's to say, "I'm willing to ... I acknowledge that might be a weaker spot for me." But what ... and this student's incredible. And I know that. I mean, we know this. [00:17:00] It's actually a really small thing in admin, in [inaudible 00:17:03], isn't it? You take that out of the way and you just get so much potential. And that's why so many of us are sort of upset and grieving when we are diagnosed, because it's touching on all that potential that you feel you've wasted and all the things in the way, and now you know there's a reason, and if only someone had been able to help with those small things. It sort of spirals from there, doesn't it?
Meagan Cooke (17:23):
Yeah, and how different it could have been.
Oli Meredith (17:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Anthony Brown (17:28):
I guess one thing I'd be curious [00:17:30] then is with that potential, how do you feel like your neurodiversity contributes to your research, your academic work and your work in general?
Oli Meredith (17:40):
Like I said, I'm 47. It's taken a long time, but have learned and I'm still learning that just that great thing about hyper-focus, which is maybe it's a cliche, but I mean my experience, it's really real. And if you try and go in the opposite direction of that, and I think that's why we can be an inspiration to everyone in society. Everyone should be following their passions and finding a way to do that. [00:18:00] It's just that people with ADHD especially, things are really screwy if you don't do that. It's that bit harder.
Meagan Cooke (18:07):
Which is the cost of not doing it is great.
Oli Meredith (18:09):
The cost of not doing is greater. Yeah, thank you, that was beautifully put compared to screwy. Yeah, so for me, it was like research-wise, well, of course I'm passionate about this. I've just got to make that my research. I've just got to make that fit in. And since doing that, things have become really [00:18:30] great. And when I've tried to follow, it just hasn't worked out. And I think that a lot of people with ADHD often find when they have the privilege of being able to run their own businesses and things like that or be self-employed, though there's a downside to that, of course, often with that admin, it's that motivating thing of doing something you're really passionate about and being self-driven and making your own choices. So in my research, getting to do that and work with like-minded people has just been a real privilege [00:19:00] and really good for me.
Anthony Brown (19:01):
Yeah, well makes sense. I find that research really exciting, like the idea of hiding or thriving, looking at neurodiversity from a more intersectional way for gender diverse people, for women. I guess what are things are you finding in that research? I know you could probably talk about this for many a podcast, but what are some standouts that you're seeing in the way in women, gender diverse people, or what supports and accommodations tend to help them a bit [00:19:30] more?
Oli Meredith (19:30):
Yeah, good question. And yeah, I've interviewed 21 people and there's so much depth to that. One of the standout things, which I think we know, is that intersectional component, obviously I've gone in with an intersectional approach. But like I said when you said about the diagnosis journey, it's where do you begin? There are so many layers and one of those is about co-occurring conditions. So that's a big theme, especially for women or assigned female at birth people who are told at a younger age, [00:20:00] diagnosed, misdiagnosed, or perhaps it just wasn't the primary issue with things like OCD, bipolar, depression, anxiety, and also medicated for those things. And people have talked about having a really different perception, and one that really rang true when they got the ADHD diagnosis versus those diagnoses. Not that everyone said they weren't necessarily right, but lots of people felt there were misdiagnosis.
(20:30):
[00:20:30] And then the co-occurring conditions, things like chronic fatigue syndrome, a really big issue. Sometimes chronic fatigue syndrome, which you have to have had that kind of burnout phase for at least six months to actually have ... not chronic fatigue, but also there's lots of people who regularly had burnout, which is something similar, but not the same, but it has got lots of similarities too. So there's similar patterns around those sorts of things. But we were looking at what helped people too, and we took medication was [00:21:00] a ... Some people talked about it as a game changer. Some people didn't engage in medications, taking medications at all. But nobody felt like it fixed everything. Whereas diagnosis itself has been such a huge change for people, which is really interesting in terms of some of the medical professionals and how they treat diagnosis, and very real gatekeepers around that, especially with women, looking at old ... Well, it's the same diagnostic test actually, but some interview questions have been changed [00:21:30] around that and people's understanding of how it shows up differently for women is really important.
(21:33):
So a lot of women have been dismissed in that process, or they dismiss themselves. "Oh, I can't have this because I'm not hyperactive. I'm not showing those signs. I'm not jumping off the wall. I'm quite quiet." But once there's a language for it and they realize their internal hyperactivity and that's acknowledged, then they're like, "Yes, of course I've got ADHD." So grieving is a massive thing. I don't think there's any woman who didn't talk about crying [00:22:00] and grieving, or gender diverse person, once they realized they had ADHD and that validation. The kind of relief, but the sadness of how things could have been, as we talked about. And things like nature and carving out your own path, being self-employed, changing work, just changing the hours, allowing themselves to do a few hours in the day and being ... That's why self-employed was actually good. It's not just the self-employed aspect, it's being allowed to control your environment, maybe working [00:22:30] into the night and things like that and just taking rests throughout. So there were so many interesting things that have come up.
Meagan Cooke (22:38):
Oh, I can imagine. Yes, I feel an urge to just stay on the line with this for a long time and we might have to make that happen. But I think that ... And now of course I've lost my train of thought. But yeah, I just wanted to pull out that idea of some people's experience of diagnosis and how powerful the diagnosis is [00:23:00] in and of itself in terms of that insight and understanding. And then how disappointed I feel when I hear about stories like yours where, well, the process itself actually wasn't that helpful and I wasn't provided with the information that would've helped that insight and understanding at the time of diagnosis. I accessed it because you're very capable and you have those skills and that interest for self-discovery.
(23:27):
There's a lot of people out there that don't necessarily know [00:23:30] where to access reliable information on ADHD and they're floundering a bit. They get the diagnosis and a lot of things come into sharp perspective and that's really helpful. But then there's also these other huge question marks that are still unanswered. And then once they get that later, it's like, "Oh. Oh, that's my ADHD as well." Yeah, turns out that one's actually just a core symptom, but they just weren't given the information at the time. So it's really ...
Oli Meredith (23:59):
It's so interesting how [00:24:00] of all the diagnosis, from what I'm hearing from others, but my research has been ADHD skewed, so I guess there's a bias there, but that diagnosis has been most helpful and that has helped me. That's my experience as well. And when I think of that ... So although I made it sound quite easy about the diagnosis, it wasn't. So I've been trying for seven years, even though I said I finally decided, it was like I finally was going to make it happen or maybe it fell into place finally. But I had been calling and calling. I lived in a regional area and there was no one available because you need to see the psychologist [00:24:30] as well as your psychiatrist or whatever you needed to see the two people. And I couldn't get to the psychiatrist. And when I could, I couldn't afford it at that time. I wasn't in this role. I was just coming out chronic fatigue syndrome. So it just wasn't accessible to me.
(24:44):
And I'm a pretty privileged, white, middle-class woman. So for other people, what chance do you have? And us with ADHD too, I'd forget where I was up to with my journey of trying to ... Who I'd spoken to and what did that person say? I've called this hotline [00:25:00] and what did they tell me? So I'd put it down for a year and I'd start again. And that was a really frustrating process. And I finally was into a psychologist about some other things more around trauma. And she said, "Look ..." I had got into a psychiatrist and she said, "Look, I think you should park this for now. You've got bigger things to be worrying about," as in processing trauma type stuff.
(25:21):
And that was really interesting. And I know she was doing the best, but actually for me, I look back on that and I think that wasn't great advice. But she didn't [00:25:30] know. And I think that's the thing. I think a lot of professionals don't realize how powerful that diagnosis can be and how empowering. I don't necessarily ... and I know lots of us don't, I don't agree with the language of ADHD. It's not deficit, often not hyperactivity, it's not a disorder. I mean, well, we can talk about that, but it's still a really helpful pause to say, "What is going on with me?" And it's a really helpful kind of validation to say that's okay.
Anthony Brown (25:59):
Very true. [00:26:00] I always found it really ironic because your experience of it taking quite a long time to get diagnosed and all the different hurdles. To get diagnosed, you need to do all these different organizational tasks to get diagnosed with the condition where you're validated that it's difficult for you to do organizational tasks. And I'd always just found that baffling. I mean, that's interesting. So I guess with your work, what accommodations have you found useful for [00:26:30] you? Keeping track of time, helping you rest and recharge, helping you move and fidget. But what's been helpful?
Oli Meredith (26:37):
Yeah, it still can be hard. I'm really lucky, again, and it's not really a solution for a lot of people, but I get to work from home. So I moved, I was working in Bathurst just around COVID, and my partner needed to move to Canberra. So I said to my work, "Can I move?" And they let me just because we were going into COVID and it was testing out distance and that's really worked for me. And the nature of this work [00:27:00] as well is really, when you're doing academia, it's quite accepted that you mark in the night and things like that. So having something a little bit more fluid like that has just been brilliant for me. In terms of actually asking for accommodations, I think it's stuff like this. Like you said, Anthony, when you said, "Look, how do you say AuDHD?" It's not as direct as, "Can you accommodate me in this way?" It's communicating the micro moments, which is just saying, "Oh, sorry." Again, like you did there, Meagan, you said, "I can't remember what I was going to ask [00:27:30] you."
(27:31):
I will say those things with confidence now, going, "I just zoned out," and have a smile. Those small things are probably the things that have helped most. I'm still struggling right now, I've done that typical thing, I've taken on a hundred projects, I'm feeling right up in the sky, I can do it all. And now, because after 47 years I've started to notice the patterns, I haven't quite crashed, but I'm noticing it, I'm going, "Oh, I can't hold this up." So now I'm still struggling because I've just taken on this big application for a grant and I'm like, do I have the guts to say I've taken [00:28:00] on too much or do I try and push through? Do I acknowledge that I've got to embarrass myself a little bit there and say I'm not only not here, I'm going to let you down with that.
(28:10):
So I'm still struggling with that, but I'm really trying hard to make ... because there's just an offset for that. There are implications. Yes, people can be accommodating, but people will also maybe, if you've let them down, will be upset about that. So that is just tricky to watch out for. [00:28:30] I'm just getting better at that, just a little bit better. I'm not brilliant, but I'm getting better at that, honoring myself even when I went down the same track I always do.
Meagan Cooke (28:39):
Oh, that's just so beautifully said. I think we can all relate to that and how freeing it is when you are able to say with confidence in those little micro moments what's happening and then have people understand and support you. That's huge. I know that the bigger things in terms of making commitments, that's, again, very relatable, at least for myself. And it's hard [00:29:00] because we're talking about something where it's like, well, I'm not quite sure how to ever understand when to say no. So when we think about I'm still struggling with that, I'm still struggling with that too. And it's not an easy thing to go, "Oh, well, this is just the skill that you learn, Meagan. This is the one that teaches you. Oh no, you can't do another project at the moment." It just doesn't work like that.
Oli Meredith (29:22):
I know. And it's interesting because I think the way ... The actual lesson isn't ... I don't like using the word neurotypical, but it's not what people without [00:29:30] ADHD would understand. It isn't that you get it right, actually, it's that you sit and surrender to the fact that that feels uncomfortable. That one minute you are up in the sky and you are doing it all and one minute you're just pulling out of everything and that maybe that cycle is okay in a way that you can soften it, perhaps, and maybe that's okay that that's how your life is that you are ... And I think that's really true because we're a weird society where we're trying to live life on a play and actually we [00:30:00] are this cyclical world and we are living in ... I am so tired in winter and I want to go in my heart, but we don't honor those realities of our body.
(30:08):
And I actually think, again, we're like the canaries in the mine, I think, the ADHD people. And actually we shouldn't be living like that, actually. So we can step outside of that and be a bit of an inspirational where we can. That's a good thing. I teach mindfulness at ... you wouldn't guess at how fast I talk, but I teach mindfulness at Charleston as well. And that's really grounding for me. I just do that once a week with ... staff [00:30:30] come and join that. And it just helps center me. And doing things like that, those meaningful things. I think, again, a lot of neurodivergent people really need that connection with meaning. Those things just really help steady me and motivate me, remind me why I'm there when my mind wanders and when I'm finding it challenging, keep me grounded. That's what it is.
Meagan Cooke (30:51):
And again, such a nice ... I think what I was reflecting on as you were talking just then, it's just a great expression of it's really about [00:31:00] the environment that you're in and the demands, because you're absolutely right. Of course it should be okay that we have these moments where we're up here and we're doing everything and we're on top of everything. And then there's a bit of a bust and that's okay too. It's rest and recovery. But it's that idea of how does that fit with the environment that you're in, the demands that you have, and the expectations of other people. And I think that's the big one. And particularly when you think about all of the ways that you think and feel about yourself when you've struggled [00:31:30] with ADHD because you didn't have the understanding of it for a big part of life, and trying to shake some of that. You even talk about feeling embarrassed and it's like, well, should that elicit embarrassed? Should it? I don't know. But we'll feel it anyway.
Oli Meredith (31:45):
Yeah, and it's learning to be okay with those feelings because we can't control all of society, and realizing that, that's actually ... Just sometimes you've got to make that choice. And I think that's the other thing that roosted out in our research was the importance [00:32:00] of community. So the diagnosis, it wasn't the diagnoses alone. It's like then you pop on Instagram or TikTok or you start buying the books. People did it all levels. People would often buy the academic research at the same time as being on TikTok. I think some people can be really disparaging about social media and its helpfulness, but it's not. It's these little memes that people go, "Oh, that's me. That's me. I'm not alone." And then-
Anthony Brown (32:23):
Information, right? Like for people, when you're in a cycle, bite-size bits. Of course that's popular.
Oli Meredith (32:30):
[00:32:30] Which is really interesting because actually I think a lot of people who aren't neurodivergent as well don't have the implication of reading a small meme. For us, it lights up so many areas because we're really big thinkers. So it's not like you're just reading a meme. So many ideas go off in our mind with that small meme. So there's actually a lot of information that comes from that. We're then making connections for the rest of our lives. We're going back over our lives of where that played out. So I think a lot of people think that's just a silly meme. How can [00:33:00] you get so much from that?
Meagan Cooke (33:02):
But of course you can. And it's about, like you say, it's normalizing, it's validating, and it's just making all of the information relatable. Yes, that happens to me too. Yeah.
Oli Meredith (33:12):
Yeah, but then I think it's that community, because then you're connecting with people and then you're saying, "I know. I know it's okay to say this. I know it's okay to say I'm zoning out because I know that's happened to people I really respect and they're okay to say it. So absolutely I should be okay." So it's that confidence building that comes [00:33:30] with that diagnosis and that comes with the connection to community, which I think is the powerful thing. Like you said, Meagan, it's really hard. Should it be like that in society? And sometimes we've got to sit with that, but also perhaps we're starting to change that because we're now having these podcasts and discussing these things as a community. Making a language for it.
Anthony Brown (33:50):
Yeah. It's nice to know at the end of the day that you're not alone. I think that's a really powerful thing. So Oli, thanks for your time today. I really appreciate [00:34:00] having the chat. Is there anything that you'd like to let our listeners know about your work and how to find you or you think you'd like to promote before we end it today?
Oli Meredith (34:09):
Oh, well, probably the best way to find me is on LinkedIn. We do have an ADHD community healing podcast as well. Feel free to have a look at that. But yeah, just Oli Meredith on LinkedIn, do feel free to be in touch around anything around neurodivergence. Always happy to chat to people.
Meagan Cooke (34:25):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Oli Meredith (34:27):
Thanks for having me guys. It's been lovely.
Anthony Brown (34:30):
[00:34:30] Enjoying today's episode. Please help us spread the word by liking, subscribing, and sharing on social media. A full transcript of today's episode, along with information about our assessment, therapy, and post-diagnostic services can be found at our website, beyond-distracted.com. That's beyond-distracted.com. This podcast is intended for educational purposes. For therapeutic advice please consult [00:35:00] a trained and licensed professional.
Links
For more information about Oli Meredith, please visit their LinkedIn and at their podcast 'The ADHD Community Healing Podcast with Dr Oli Meredith'.
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